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September 26, 2006

Speaking of Objects

Sadly, Islam is not the only religion whose adherants teach the objectification of people. In this Salon piece Roberto alerted us to, a fundamentalist Christian pastor urges women to have lots and lots of babies in order to increase the number of people who will vote for conservatives. This both objectifies women, who are viewed as baby-making machines, and values babies as a means to an end rather than as ends in themselves. This attitude makes the Christians who teach it little different from those who would create babies in order to use them for spare parts.

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Comments

Carl Holmes

I think it was Pat Roberts (but not sure) who said that we should keep letting illegals across the border because when they have children that become citizens they usually raise conservative families and have conservative values. I am not to sure I agree with that.

As far as being baby making machines let me be the first to say "thats appaling" and I can not believe it came from a fellow bearer of the cross.

Justin Taylor

Wow--I'm a little surprised that you would take Lauren Sandler's hit piece as objective reporting!

Here's a general response by the pastor, Mark Driscoll--a guy who is about as far from the label of "fundamentalist" as you can get (just ask a bona fide fundamentalist!)

http://theresurgence.com/md_blog_2006-09-19_its_always_something_at_mars_hill_church

Kevin Jones

I'm appalled that a ministry that I respect like Breakpoint would take at face value the opinion of a radical secular feminist.

Mark Driscoll is a solid conservative pastor who effectively preaches the gospel and engages culture. His views on family roles are no more radical than John MacArthur, John Piper, or other conservative Christian leaders.

David Wayne

Anne - now that Justin has linked to you on his blog I am sure you are going to get more hits and comments than you can shake a stick at and my guess is that most of them will be along the lines of Justin's. So,I don't want to pile on, but Justin is right - the Salon article was a hit piece. Driscoll is one of the most refreshing young faces we have in evangelicalism, and the Salon article doesn't come close to capturing what he is about. May I suggest you do a search for "Mark Driscoll" on Justin's blog and my own for some positive views on him.

mike gunn

Allowing this complete piece of mis-reporting to be placed on an ostensibly reputable site is APPALLING! You have taken the ravings of an agnostic with a clear agenda, and without any fact checking villified a good brother in the Lord who is as far away from these accusations as you can imagine. Your rag lacks integrity an ought to hire Steve Glass as its editor, since he too shares the obvious proclivity to personal interpreation of reality for the sake of a story. Shame on you Breakpoint!!

Anika Smith

Anne,

While Sandler's article (indeed, her whole book, which is an intriguing story worth reading) is a hit piece, one where she may have fabricated many of her quotes, as a young evangelical woman I have a hard time swallowing much of what Mark Driscoll preaches. Sandler exposed one of the weaknesses of a growing church (and an exciting one, which many of my friends here in Seattle attend). I defend Mars Hill Church against every secularist attack against its work for the Kingdom of God... but this is a church which preaches against women in leadership and relegates them to roles that perhaps they were not created to fill.

Roger Overton

Anika, what do mean by "relegates them to roles that perhaps they were not created to fill?" Are you saying there are some things women can't or shouldn't do?

Philipp Gollner

It's time for an excuse, Mrs. morse, don't you think? Apparently you haven't read more about or from Driscoll than the one article you are quoting and made at least one completely wrongheaded accusation.

Brian Jackson

Anne,
Your criticism of Mark Driscoll was truly out of line. It is true that Mark Driscoll is a bit rough around the edges. He is however, a faithful minister of God's Word. He preaches the true Gospel of Christ. God has been pleased to bless his preaching with the authentic conversion of many people. I've never been to Mars Hill, but have listened to dozens of Driscoll's sermons via the web. I've benefitted greatly from the ministry of this man and this church. I thank God for the ministry of Mars Hill Church and the Acts 29 network that are greatly benefitting my home state of Washington. As mentioned by others, Driscoll's views on gender roles are simply those of the complementarian position. If you want to attack Driscoll, please also include Wayne Grudem, John Piper, the Southern Baptist Convention and about 19 centuries of Christian history. They are all saying basically the same thing. Please be very careful to avoid slandering faithful ministers of our Lord.

Michael

Hi everyone,
Before judging a man and the ministry Jesus has entrusted to him, let him speak for himself. Pleas listen to this past Sunday's Sermon (9.25.2006) at MarsHillChurch.org or via their podcast on iTunes. The message is titled "A Pastor's Love" and he includes an indirect response to much of the criticisms he has heard lately regarding the salon.com article. Please listen and give this man the courtesy of speaking for himself.
While none of our pastors is Jesus, we recognize that Jesus was and is criticized constantly; but we urge those critics to let Jesus speak for himself through revelation, the Spirit, the Word, etc. Let's offer this same respect to this pastor and others that are criticized or attacked.

Anika Smith

I guess I would say that I think some women were created to teach, and that while I appreciate Driscoll's work, I am wary of the sort of pressure I have observed to have men choosing wives. And I have had friends who have been effectively excommunicated by Driscoll for questioning his authority. I would never say Salon has the right idea, and it gladdens my heart as a lonely evangelical in Seattle to see Mars Hill's numbers increase.

Jason Taylor

By the way Roger, yes there are things a woman can't or shouldn't do.

A woman shouldn't be prideful, lustful, angry, avaricious, envious, slothful, or gluttonous.

A woman can't travel backwards in time, teleport to other planets, or turn herself into a rabbit.

Therefore there are things a woman can't or shouldn't do.
Not quite what you met of course, but I thought it amusing.

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